It should be the same way in Stellaris: I should be able to cash in my loyalty, or influence, or whatever to modify contracts if I have the dough to spend. rules pretty harsh now: -must have domination tradision. 1) Release the subject. As suggested above, if it is a war goal, and they are forced at the end of a sword, then. Just from a narrative point of view, you're supposedly helping your subjects against their rebels, and for you to "help" your subjects against their rebellion by taking all of the rebel lands for yourself (somehow magically getting free claims on these systems in. ”. Two ways to get a vassal. The problem is that vassals don't get AI difficulty bonuses, meaning the moment you vassalize an empire on higher difficulties it becomes much, much weaker. The problem is that vassals don't get AI difficulty bonuses, meaning the moment you vassalize an empire on higher difficulties it becomes much, much weaker. The names are kind of misleading and the exact opposite honestly, and could use a bit of a rework. The issue here (judging from the stream) - we are not able to negotiate with the vassal to change their inner policies. ; About Stellaris Wiki; Mobile viewWhatever you can get basic resource and industrial tribute to 75% in. Stellaris Wiki Active Wikis. This would allow feudal societies to expand naturally. Anyways, about the main question -- I generally approach the federation/vassals choice in terms of a long term diplomatic plan. From then on, all you do is keep your navy as big as possible, and sling the federation fleet around like a bludgeon to bully everyone around you. From the “Empires” tab, select the objective, then “Communicate” and “Declare War. Releasing a vassal with a fraction of the pops lets them grow much, much faster. war, peace, etc. +15% is half a Clone Admiral Ascendant and is a substantial boost for already powerful fleets. The requirements for vassals and tributaries are sick. Even with expansion prohibited, they still keep their existing claims and will take territory in Total War conflicts. The player can then transfer additional systems to their vassal through the Trade option "Transfer System" if they so choose. 8boy09. Plus they'll get to your technological level so that you get the scientist relay bonus if make them. That is, if you're playing on grand admiral then your vassals get admiral level bonuses. An empire can become a subject willingly via diplomacy, the acceptance dependent on a number of. Forced submission: You automatically get a subjugation Casus Beli on any empire that is overall "inferior" to you in fleet, tech, and economic power. If you can just use tribute to get your Minerals/Energy/Food, you can devote your planets primarily towards industry and you need very few planets for that. Protectorates are also able to colonize planets, so they can expand their empire while they're still a protectorate. ago. I’m playing a progenitor hive and I wanted to create a vassal from one planet but I can only manage to make a whole sector a vassal. x (in Steam Workshop) (If you see my post in Stellaris Bug Report subforum analyzing a specific bug, it probably means that bug is fixed in my mod. You are too far ahead with your Research. • 7 yr. 1. In exchange you can take much more from them (75% resources vs 45% from trib to vassal iirc). So a criminal syndicate is doing its job and has a couple of branches open on my planets. The term vassal by itself actually means the ruler of the vassal state rather than the actual state. On Small sizes and larger, they add a Militarist. Don't tax them into poverty, causing shortage situations. . You will start in a consumer goods deficit. Go to Stellaris r/Stellaris. At least if your empire is already at a decent size and any increase in minerals & naval capacity is pretty much nonrelevant. The first strategy entails declaring war on a specific nation. Stellaris Wiki Active Wikis. especially if they can band together and significantly outmatch him militarily. There is a walkaround of creating a single system vassal-> free empire and forming federation with them and all. Ideology wargoal and after winning and their government and ethics shift you might be able to convince them to be your vassal or protectorate if they're small enough of an empire. Also, I'm the Custodian. To do this method, whoever you’re trying to make your Vassal must be at peace. Stellaris desperately needs a threaten mechanic. This is my personal ranking of the all the new federations types added to the game based on how strongly they increase the power of an empire (s). r/Stellaris. It was diplomatic just so that country wouldnt declare war. 5% of annual income, manpower tribute is 25% of annual gain, and monarch point tribute is 1 per 33 developments (rounded down) and capped at 12 for 400 or more development. 98 vs 1. Steam Workshop: Stellaris. Acquisitive Hive Mind- Likes to collect things, by war or negotiation. ) 1; Reactions:The peak of this was the try to change a vassal contract with a self released vassal. You have to move your capital to another planet and if you click the create vassal button afterwards you can create a vassal with your own species owning your former capital world. . So right now I'm playing a hivemind game, and there is this absolutely pathetic nation which I REALLY want to cede so I can eat em, but the problem is they don't use the same planet type as I do (10% habitability). Granted I play with mods like Stellaris Evolved and Gigastructures so there's tech at play that is extremely. Make tributary is a war goal and diplomacy demand. Surprise, vassals are not slaves, study a little what a vassal is. also domination tree gets. See screenshots for new tradition effects. 4. 'War score' at the beginning of war says it's -200. What I find works best is to determine what vassal it is then determine what role suits them best. [ˈtribyəˌterē] NOUN. Push his face in the dirt This costs you zero influence, and resets the vassal to such an unpalatable deal that he'll eagerly accept whatever changes you like after the 5 year cool down. 5% increase in trade output back to you. The bordergore can get horrendous when you're trying to. Scholarium: Bonus to research, penalty to fleep can and upkeep. Now, lets compare it to how far we are with fusion and what there is to know and what problems there are to solve. min. Tributaries themselves are kinda meh and supposedly pretty bugged in 1. It's sorta like the political version of slaves. 1 Answer. I even made federation members to accept my vassal and then released him, transfering my fleets for 30 years before doing this, but. If your combined military is greater than the overlord, they should start a war for independence, and pull you into it. It’s like whenever the AI wants a vassal, everything is hunkey dorie but when I’m the one subjugating, suddenly I’m “oppressive” and “exploiting billions of people for resources to. 1 Answer. See screenshots for new tradition effects. 45% basic tribute gives about -500 acceptance. Your vassals don't entirely lose the npc bonuses from difficulty setting but they drop down one level of difficulty for determining their bonuses. Vassalizing is a war goal now, not a diplomacy option; you have to force the other empire into being your vassal, and you only get the option if you first tried to get them to give you tribute and they denied you. bane_howlingmoon Mar 18, 2018 @ 5:42am. In any case, you automatically have defensive pacts with vassals/protectorates, and defensive pacts drain influence. This page was last edited on 7 June 2023, at 04:39. They turn from protectorate to vassal when they research a x% of your known techs (not sure how much). Plus, if you've gotten said protectorate by doing something like. It is far easier and faster than trying to conquer individual planets. One researches a tech, you get a discount. You will be presented with many options as demands, and “Vassalize” is one of the options. Honestly, Stellaris is another game than it was at release and I agree the war system still sucks, but the earlier one was just complete shambles. AI empires will never willingly trade away systems -- if an empire has a system you want, the only way to get it is to fight them for it. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Also didn't help I got boxed in the other end by mauraders, but I made discovery; if you're a specialist vassal, and you hire a leader, it adds the vassal trait as well as their special one, so you might be able to generate some powerful leaders. However, a megacorp also entails a trade build (usually), and that produces CG. I'm playing as a religious military empire. The overlord can't curtail their expansion, doesn't interfere in any of their wars (and vice versa), the tributary simply feeds them resources. Subscribe to downloadVassals and Tributaries - Exalted Domination [2. Edit the contract as you see fit, and it will have either a red cross or a green tick. a person or state that pays tribute to another state or ruler. All planets in systems within 4 jumps are part of this sector and this new vassal. -Permanent employment gives a slow-but-steady stream of zombie clerks to the vassal (1 per 5 years), increasing clerk trade power for the trade build/trade federations they should all be a part of. It can even get to the point where taking all of their planets and annihilati Britain sent troops to the subject to enforce her will, the subject rebelled and the whole thing escalated into a war between the two. A lot of them for for basically kicking your vassal when they're down and exploiting them. Hegemony federation members get bonuses which their overlord does not, so they’re a bit better off than regular vassals. In some cases, the obligation included paying tribute, but a state which does so is better described as a tributary state. Stellaris. You get 1 influence point for each protectorate you have established. e. It is the same cost for another of my subjects which is 4 times the size. Keeping a vassal rather than integrating will only be done if it is worth it - Overlord fixed it with specialist vassals by allowing Prospectoriums and Scholariums to print resources out of loyalty, which is still imo not that satisfying. This page was last edited on 7 June 2023, at 04:39. So, I have this vassal, they were the only empire that was competing with me until we had an all out war against each other, I crippled them substantially, so much so that after the war they requested vassalization, but they have since built back up. You can easily rename your capital system, and so, you can easily rename your subjects. Yes. Never vassalize a human player. Other Features: - All of the subject interaction features of the mod are handled through a new edict: Manage Subject States. You will basically have a federation with your vassal from day 1. Maybe some kind of softcap "Vassal Capacity" similar to Starbase Capacity would do a better job. If you are a megacorp with Franchising. You need to build your fleet and research technologies it will make them more reluctant to vassalise you. Esecially with hegemony. . Description. So, if you have enough influence, you can brute force the change. 6 comments. Only offer basic resource subsidies when you’re getting such tribute from your vassals that it doesn’t affect your own specialist economy. So there is no reason to not integrate a vassal unless you are fine with having a worthless pile of pops on the map. "In an Allegiance War, you seek to wrest control of the vassals that have pledged Secret Fealty to you, and they will join in on the attack on their former Overlord. then its like -100 warscore to win the war, and -100 for vassel/tribute demand, and w/e else relative power modifiers there are. 3. HOWEVER, despite them being superior to me in fleet strength and equivalent in economy and tech they were willing to be my vassal. . They pay you tribute and that's it. Snuff out as much of the competition as you can in the early years before the galactic community forms and claim your place as a galactic superpower. ago. its entirely onesided and hurts overlord more. Thoughts? As a vassal i could feed them 3 systems i want to colonise but dont want the. Making federations baseline and replacing one or two of the points with something vassalization related could go a long way. Bulwark: Presumably has a bonus to their fleets and a penalty to resources. So what you want to do is either start the federation with a non vassal neighbor and your vassals with auto join, or release a vassal that likes you. How to make vassals/tributary. 2. Dozens of reviews and discussions complaining that vassals are not slaves. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews. think negotiating vassal terms should be a littlebit cheaper in terms of influence. The way it works is first, you need ability off the unity tree, which. 5 influence. CalebS92. . 1. Open up the “Empires” tab, select the Empire you want to Vassalize, and click on the “Communicate” button. And also look into Vassals Expanded and Reworked mod, it makes vassals a whole lot better than vanilla, there’s a few kinds of vassal and you can limit what your vassals can do like not expand. • 7 yr. Eathlome. Nice! Remember to keep votes equal and not by diplomatic weight. Go to Stellaris r/Stellaris. Correction: Only voluntary protectorates give you influence. Toggle signature. The mod locks each vassal type to a specific ethic, but the Feudal civic lets you use all of them. 12 Badges. Subsidiaries only pay energy, while tributaries pay both energy and minerals. if you want their territory you vassalize, if you want their energy credits and very much dont want to annex them you go tributary. This means at 100 loyalty it will take 120 months (10 years) to reach tier 2 and 360 months (30 years) to reach tier 3. Bochanks. Vanilla vassals do almost nothing. ”. That's interesting, I didn't know (or I guess notice) that protectorates can colonize but vassals can't. Suzerainty (/ ˈ s uː z ər ə n t i,-r ɛ n t i /) includes the rights and obligations of a person, state or other polity which controls the foreign policy and relations of a tributary state, but allows the tributary state internal autonomy. Final modifier of 10 % of member's diplo weight added to yours and with vassal mechanics you can force them to vote as you do! I can not overstate how absolutely powerful. They will do the setup for a liberation war for you, and all you have to do is help out. They can rebel against you. Advantages of Imposed Inclusion over standard subjugation: On a side note, IIRC the devs had originally planned to make three different. So, if you have enough influence, you can brute force the change. They did give me a free tech, as well as a psionic governor since my overlord was a spiritualist FE. Find sources: "Vassal state" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (November. ago. All subject types now grant a small degree of influence, which can be put. Deactivate them and make a try (if that doesn't break your game of course). The whole point of an alliance is that you declare and respond to wars as a unified entity. As I mentioned, Stellaris is a game where the strong get stronger and the weak fall further and further behind, and this makes vassal-based play a very dubious proposition. Business, Economics, and Finance. Atrus, demanding tribute is a pre-requisite to vassalizing. You can check the modifiers by hovering over the red x (or the green checkmark) next to the demand vassalization text. Protectorates are also able to colonize planets, so they can expand their empire while they're still a protectorate. Them kick them out. Stellaris. And the nature of Stellaris is that the weak get weaker and the strong get stronger, so even with the cheats their situation is just going to get worse. which likely won't happen unless you declare war on them with the Demand of vassalization. You could shove up right against one, rival, insult, and claim their systems. Lets find out. To request an empire to become your vassal, first, you will need to contact them via the diplomacy screen. Originally posted by Revan Tair: Protectorate is way much better, than vassals. 6 though. Tributaries also seem to be of more use early, as the couple dozen energy/minerals still make a difference, while vassals are better lategame when they. Prospectorium: Bonus to resource extraction, penalty to research. DeanTheDull • Necrophage • 1 yr. you research it, the other two get a discount. To see what we can do to make your empire bigger and stronger than ever before,. It adds 9 10 new types of subject empires (1 for each ethics + 1 for hive minds +1 for machine intelligences ), each with its own perks. Precisely why it's broken. If you haven't been the overlord for enough time, the option will be disabled, but still visible. Vassal Contracts are a massive new feature of the Stellaris 3. You can vassalize by liberating a group of systems, then vassalizing the resulting empire formed of those systems. One correction here. . AI empires that are vassalized are, virtually by definition, weaker to begin with and are typically behind the curve economically and militarily even with their resource cheats. Members still have some autonomy and can expand. This will make food-intensive economies like cloning vats supportable via tribute. I just make 1 system tributaries in my territory that last thing i need is a vassal becoming superior to me in economy. Aug 10, 2018. Atrus, demanding tribute is a pre-requisite to vassalizing. There also should be a way to influence a vassal's policies, but that should be a thing outside of vassal creation, using the game's standard diplomacy, allowing you to make various demands like "give me minerals as tribute" or "change this policy" (naturally affecting the vassal's Opinion of you). You only get taxes from sectors, and you. When you click the "Propose Subjugation" it'll open up your contract window you first need to change the vassal type through the drop down menu. Provided, of course, you have enough influence to push it through. Go to Stellaris r/Stellaris. 2k malus. r/Stellaris. 25 influence a month, and you can integrate them if you want. Tributaries give 25% of their energy/minerals, which is okay, but the AI just might not be able to produce enough to make it worth it. Two of the most popular subject empire types are tributary and vassal. As ever, your civilization can rise from a post-apocalyptic past, departing to the stars. Step 1: Make a planet you just conquered a vassal. A vassal is probably overall more "useful" than actually own their territory (due to conquest or integration), even if they currently pretty dumb in terms of military actions (which is probably fixed at some time). You might expect a cold war or even hot war situation once the galaxy is divided in 2-3 power blocks, but stellaris just doesnt seem to favor that. Age of Wonders 4 Empire of Sin Cities: Skylines 2 Crusader Kings 3 Europa Universalis 4 Hearts of Iron 4 Hunter: The Reckoning Imperator: Rome Prison Architect Stellaris Surviving Mars Surviving the Aftermath Vampire: The Masquerade Victoria 3. Next to the “Demand Vassalization” button will either be a green tick or a red cross. YobaiYamete • Nihilistic Acquisition • 1 yr. Starting with Hegemon (one of the most underrated origins, imo), I plan to integrate both neighbors then use the early boost in fleet power to cause early subjugation throughout the galaxy (GA, mid game scaling set to 2250). In Stellaris, becoming a vassal of a regular empire means gameover 99% of the time. Almost all vassals from military conquest start at -100 loyalty anyways, so the -4 does nothing, they are already on max disloyalty. Then you could sit on top. vassal liberation/secret fealty wars are radically stacked in favor of the overlord. There are two ways for a free country to become a vassal of another country: diplomatic. vassals act as buffers between you and enemies, wars against you probably will involve a liberation of a vassal for 50 warscore. Vassalizing empires is definitely my favorite way to win (tied with Rogue Servitors). Releasing vassals and forming federations with them. I RP that the overlords install some of their leaders onto their vassal's planets to look over. 2x probably). Form the federation with someone else. PuzzleheadedPool1 • Devouring Swarm • 1 yr. Stellaris is a game where usefullness heavily depends on the playstyle. Third is that people will want a Bulwark, but probabably as a 1-planet minor vassal, in order to get significant starbase discounts (20%) that will also apply to planetary rings. Fix vassals, tributes, and federations! Thread starter redharo; Start date Apr 16, 2020; Jump to latest Follow Reply Menu. Select the target from the “Empires” tab, select “Communicate,” and then select “Declare War. Nope, and it's awful. Legacy Wikis. You can demmand far more resources from a tributary vs a normal. 7. I typically vassalize Fallen Empire core worlds and. . Having a protectorate gives . A vassal cannot colonize new planets. ; About Stellaris Wiki; Mobile view So 15% basic tribute gives about -500 acceptance. In essence, a Tributary is a more independent vassal that you cannot really control. They wouldn't willingly interact as a vassal because it is too involved maybe, but as a tributary they maintain more independence/ isolation. 209 5. You can attack realistically attack void dwellers and ringworlders early in the game. As shogun you have the daimyo mechanic which is incredibly powerful, it allows you to have unlimited vassals. Last game I was playing, I was the president of a trade federation and a neighboring empire that had associate status wouldn't join my federation due to a -2. Every. Description: This mod aims to improve the Domination tradition so that it is an appealing option at any stage of the game and also adds several new vassal and tributary types that are more evocative and useful to an overlord. Next to the “Demand Vassalization” button will either be a green tick or a red cross. Federation members keep difficulty bonuses. You could conceivably stack vassal influence buildings to drain the subject of influence until it loses, assuming there's no cooldown on proposing changes, but there is almost certainly better uses for the influence (including flat-out creating, conquering, and then releasing a vassal with perfect alignment, better economy techs/traditions, and. This will open the vassal contract menu. You can only hope that your overlord leaves the federation or something similar. Civil Wars. ^ these is already in the game. If you want slaves there is already a mechanic for it, conquer the planets, if you want a vassal you will have to negotiate. Alneowyld. The benefit to having a vassal is the research agreement. AI always pays tribute when Liberty Desire is below 50% and refuses otherwise. Vassals you release inherent your ethics and government. Vassals. 5 loyalty (0. #3. I currently share a trade league with 6 other empires, and all of them have to vote with me. So basically if I'm understanding this correctly. I'd say it depends on your ethics, and thus options. For protectorates, you actually gain influence, iirc. The limits on the Vassal system exist so that the game remains fun when playing as both an overlord OR a vassal. Vassals can lead to scenario where your ships have to go through friend space to reach your other owned sectors. Once a vassal hits the trust cap in an empire like this, release them. If you don't have a planet in that sort of a system, build a hab and settle it. Maybe a research agreement if it's possible, but they already receive a bonus to tech just from being your protectorate. Stellaris. SnooStories8859. A player can create a vassal from their own territory by releasing one of their sectors as a vassal from the "Sectors" tab by clicking the "Create Vassal" button next to the sector they want to release. think negotiating vassal terms should be a littlebit cheaper in terms of influence. You can only subjugate by force if the empire is weaker than you since overlord. Early in the game I invaded my rival, an authoritarian religious sect, and status quo ed them and formed a. I'd only use liberation if you plan as retaining them as a vassal, although do note that empires will. The second vassal everyone will want is the Scholarium, who provides a significant bonus to research potential and valuable science tribute. You can declare war of independence then use the console to switch to overload and accept the independence. Jump to latest Follow Reply. Seems like I'm just too greedy thinking: "Why would I give up that hard-fought territory, when the AI is so bad at managing it? Surely I can better manage it myself?" But with the latest Overlord expansion I feel I. If you only demand, your vassal should only accept if he is loyal. All of which Stellaris vassals do? Militarily, Vassals are valid military allies and buffer states, whose innate starbase and fleet capacity provide a greater defense in depth and fleets share hostilities. Report. normal empire = vassal megacorp = Subsidary Like you said you have a lot of mods. Mar 29, 2022; Add bookmark #14. 4) End that war in such a way that you retain the system you want, preferably without losing any systems in the process. You may decide to do this if; the size of your empire is becoming a bit difficult to manage or you have gained a sector too far. Without it all vassals are good for are buffer states. thelandsman55. 45% basic tribute gives about -500 acceptance. This is basically creating vassals, letting them grow pops for awhile, and then re-integrating them. Vassals can potentially act as a buffer between you and other empires. That's interesting, I didn't know (or I guess notice) that protectorates can colonize but vassals can't. As such, tributaries are better than subsidiaries, so do not pick megacorp for subsidiaries. Scholarium should get some better bonuses to make them actually the science vassal to play as, as well as the subject science one to get. In Stellaris Terms a Federation is like a Alliance with benefits. So when they're independent they don't just starve and die. Anyways, about the main question -- I generally approach the federation/vassals choice in terms of a long term diplomatic plan. " 1. DeanTheDull Necrophage • 1 yr. But honestly there's very little reason to continue this game. Stellaris v3 version available here! This mod aims to improve the Domination tradition so that it is an appealing option at any stage of the game and also adds several new vassal and tributary types that are more evocative and useful to an overlord. I play tall and use tributaries. The new empire that's created as a result of Liberation has a large bonus to their opinion towards you because of the Liberation, so you should be able to vassalize immediately. The Ministry of X buildings that give you a share of a planet's production are a case example. They'll like you a lot after the war so it will really come down to size/power difference between your empire and theirs. It leads to some funny (and frustating) situations like when you claim all the enemies planets so they will disapear, instead of becoming a vassall. Go into the diplomacy tab with the empire you wanna vassalize. Integrating a vassal means taking all their garbage as well. The first method involves going to war with a target empire. Furaigon. An overlord can spam the demands with no timer to exhaust all influence from their vassals. AI empires will never willingly trade away systems -- if an empire has a system you want, the only way to get it is to fight them for it. ago. 0 pop growth update some people have been "vassal farming". Depending on how strong you are relatively to either of them. Tributary. Go into the diplomacy tab with the empire you wanna vassalize. Yeah. Question about vassal criminal syndicate. The enemies you fight at that point where you would actually think of using AI help would obliterate AI ships so it's best to have them fund you. I integrate until I hit 1k fleet cap, then I stick with one vassal and feed him until he's equivalent. A bit of a headache since you need to station armies, but otherwise no big deal. If your country isn’t shown, click the Own Country. 7. It depends on what you want from them. ago. Edit: To correct myself: You can create a vassal of your own species, but only your homeworld. Nov 21, 2023thinking between vassal or tributary, if vassal it's 4k additional fleet power in wars (my combined is 8k), but unreliable when declaring wars, usually I want to have all fleet. there's a lot to say about stellaris' war systems. 45% basic subsidy gives about +50 acceptance. If you vassalize an empire with vassal, the vassal should keep it’s vassal. jbroege • 7 yr. To release a vassal state: Bring up the Diplomacy Menu. You can make your vassals tribute pops, unity, alloys, CGs, strategic resources, naval cap, any number of things really. The biggest bonus, however, is the simple fact that I'm a vassal to an FE. It gives boosts but also much more political power than vassals. Stellaris. Is there a way to force a neighbour to become your vassal with the new. Get them to agree to it themselves, or force them to submit with a war. You get 1 influence point for each protectorate you have established. Hives have great growth potential, but they face the same drag as everyone else. A country can become a vassal either through diplomatic or military means, and may eventually be annexed peacefully ("diplo-annexed") to the ruling kingdom. In general, halving the empire size per researcher doubles the limit on how quickly you can research. ago. -100 for vassaling and -100 for something like war at itself. That's it. The easiest way is to increase the gold, but I think the cool way of making them more useful is the liege receives 5% of any fame earned by the vassal. A vassal is kind of a 'extension' of your empire: you join each other in wars, they cannot expand or conduct indipendent diplomacy and they boost your naval strenght. Vastly, hugely, and mind-bogglingly so, to paraphrase Douglas Adams. Unlike, say, Crusader Kings, in Stellaris it is possible to just control everything directly. ecnel •. The benefit is that, by vassalizing early, you gain a better reward in the long run as your vassals continue expanding and your time investment in the beginning pays off nicely. when in reality Bulwark or Prospectorium are better at science lol. Iirc, the old domination. Later on, when you have vassals you can force them to kick the empire out then have vas Vassals are very bad. Creating a Vassal Out of A Sector. Just make sure to status quo on vassal wars instead of fully win them, which will convert all captured enemy territory to your side as a vassal and make them your ideology so they love you. Bulwark Retaliator trait provides +15% fire rate bonus and does not replace the trait that all admirals start with. They are a Tributary that can build its own fleet and has a max tax rate lower than that of a tributary. The broken part is that you can get any contract, even one with a 75% tax on everything.